How Deborah Sweeney built a custom workflow management software to systematize her entire business even though she had no technical background!

OWEN: Hi my name is Owen McGab Enaohwo and welcome to Process Breakdown podcast where I get on successful entrepreneurs who come on here and reveal how they’ve been able to create systems and processes for their business that literally now enable them to run their business without their constant involvement. And my guest today is Deborah Sweeney, and she is the CEO of mycorporation.com. Deborah, welcome to the show.DEBORAH: Hi Owen, thanks for having me.OWEN: So let’s dive in. How is your company been transformed as a result of systematizing your business?DEBORAH: One of the most important things is our responsiveness to our customers. And so, systematizing our business had enabled us to be more responsive to our customers, to be on top of their needs. We’re talking to small business owners who are incorporating or forming LLC’s, and they usually need it right away. So our goal is to be responsive. And so, automating and systematizing our business has really helped to make a difference.OWEN: And how will you see your personal life has been transformed as a result of having a systematized business?DEBORAH: As of anything with the small business owner, I think your heart and soul is in the business, right? And when you are able to let your team take ownership and run their component of the business, once it’s systematized and organized, then you have the ability to take a deep breath and be away from the business at times. I find that my time away from the business gives me better perspective at times, and gives me a better opportunity to think about strategies for the business. So really attributing ownership to my employees had made a big difference.

OWEN: So what is exactly does your company do and what big pain do you solve for your customers?

DEBORAH: We incorporate and inform LLC’s for business owners and entrepreneurs. We do the filing and the paperwork. So when you want to form a corporation, for example, in Florida and you know that that’s where you want to incorporate. You come to us and we prepare the people who work for you, and then we file it with the secretary of state in Florida, and do all your annual fillings so that you know that you’re on top of your fillings and requirements, year over year until your business continues.

OWEN: Okay. So basically, if you’re just starting out, they want to incorporate the company that come to you. You handle all of the stuff for them. And one I think my listeners like, they want to understand the skill of your business, and so, how many full-time employees you currently have?

DEBORAH: We have 34 full-time employees today and we have 12 part-time, people who do social media, PR, and other related services that may not be totally full-time. We employ a lot of students who are academics and going got to get the word out about our service.

OWEN: And in terms of revenue, what was last year’s and what are you probably thinking of doing this year?

DEBORAH: Sure. Last year, we’ve just over 6 million and our growth rate this year, we’re projecting about seven and a half million.

OWEN: That’s impressive.

DEBORAH: You don’t say, yeah.

OWEN: So, we’ve had [Unintelligible 00:02:49] that your business is systematized, but before it got to this point, they obviously have to be some hitches and challenges you had to deal with in the past. So, take us back to what will you say was the lowest point in your business, and describe how bad it got.

DEBORAH: Sure. I think that the lowest point was when demands from the customers were coming, our team was not as organized as we would like them to be, we were having issues with– our renewal and revenue growth was exponentially increasing. But we had a difficult time tracking customers, they’re needs, the requirements in the States, and all of the demands that they were needing as entrepreneurs and business owners. My employees were frustrated, and so I’ve got the frustration. And then as a result we realized we really need to be absolutely on top of not just the original filing, what you do with the State to begin with. But all the annual filings that a business has to maintain, or we’re going to have upset customers, people who aren’t in compliance with the State, and my employees are going to be going crazy. So I think that was the kind of “Aha, low, low” moment when we knew that you’ll be able to get things in order.

OWEN: You also mentioned during the pre-interview that one of the full aspects of running the business is that you were not so skilled at managing all the employees. I think you mentioned that you’re an attorney by trade and you shine individually, and now you’re running to this situation where you have to manage people, let’s talk about that, you know.

DEBORAH: Well, I think that was my single hardest point as an individual was learning that when you’re a lawyer, which I was. I trained to be a lawyer, I practiced in law, and my focus was in intellectual property and corporate law. It’s an individual role. I worked with my clients but I did my own work, I sat behind my desk, I worked with the judges, but I worked by myself for the most part. I wasn’t managing a large group of employees. And I think that was my single biggest learning point was when you have 40+ employees, it is a lot of work staying on top of their needs, their requirements, even the customers complaining to them, or talking to them, or asking questions. It is a big opportunity area for me to learn to grow as a manager. And I think that was one of my biggest opportunities. Funny enough, the business was owned by Intuit prior to buying the business back in 2009. And it was at that point that I realized, “Oh my goodness, I am going to have to manage these employees.” And it’s not just about running this business and the PNL, and staying on top of the law. Now, it’s about paying attention to personal needs of individuals, and it’s taken me awhile to adapt to that and move from my individual contributor roles to a leadership role.

OWEN: So you mentioned some problems. The first part was the issue with making sure that the delivery or the fulfillment of your production side of the business actually deliver, and tracking all the way to completion. And then the other part was the issue of managing the employees now that you came in from the background where you were more of an individual contributor. Now, you have to manage people. So let’s talk about how exactly did you solve each of those problems, let’s go into specifics.

DEBORAH: I think the first part was with regards to solving for the customers, our goal was to create a system that automatically filter the requirements for each state, and each customer within the state with their filling dates and what their renewal requirements were. So that we didn’t have customer coming to the door and have all these needs, and tell them we could solve them without being on top of the dates and on top of the filling requirements. So, our technology team has worked for the last 3 years on really– and every day it’s an improvement process, an opportunity area for us to get even better. Because the laws change, customer requirements change. We learn about what our customer needs, and we try to solve more customer problems. So I think that has been a true opportunity for us to systematize our systems on the back-end from the technology standpoint. On the front-end, from the customer service standpoint and how ideal with my team, I worked really hard at being an open door policy. True communication with my team members, managing from an emotional perspective of the leader and trying to get them on board. But it’s also been about communicating about sending and some weekly, updating emails saying, “Here’s what our strategy is for this week.” And then I do monthly announces, I look back on the prior month, I look forward on the month to come. So I make sure that our team is all on the same page. And now for the process, I really believe in communication. I think that having good communication with your team to let them then do their day-to-day better. If they feel like they know what the goals are, then I can let go and let them trust that they know where they’re headed and then move in that direction. And that too has given me– although it takes management skills and forethought, it also gives me the ability to take a step back and have the freedom to not just be literally heads down in the business 24 hours a day.

OWEN: So, you mentioned the 2 issues, 1 with production side, making sure that your team deliver, and the other side was managing the employees. But I’m curious, let’s dive in. What will you say was the very first thing you did back then? Work us through what is the very first thing you did.

DEBORAH: So the first thing was regard to the technology, was us identifying the opportunity areas from the customer standpoint, and evaluating what they’re thinking about and what they need in terms of their demands. And then we look at the board, and we say, “Okay, here’s what our technology needs to do to systematize this process.” And then we basically built, and we iterate each phase to improve. And we never take our eye off the ball, we continuously work on creating this process. With regard to the employees, my goal is to continue to communicate both and feedback to the employees, and setting my expectations for them. And also, opening my door for their feedback to me. And I think those are the 2 processes we put in place that enable us to improve on both of those aspects.

OWEN: Let’s see if we can make it more concrete because I understand the concept. But is there an example of something specific that you can use from back then that we can highlight?

DEBORAH: Absolutely. So, one example is that my development team was perceiving what the development of systems that will not necessarily– we didn’t have great communication between us. They would go and work for month or two on a project, and then release it. And it wouldn’t be exactly what you’re looking for. And so, once we started communicating, and I said, “Here’s how you need to evaluate this project. Here’s what big picture’s focus.” And they were able to dial that what it looks like for them over the next week, the next month, and even the next 2 to 3 months. And iterate against those projects. And so basically what it takes is us taking really clean assessment on one single project launch, and realizing that we needed to be very specific about the expectation. And so with that project that led us to realize that when we communicated weekly on what were our expectations for the following week, what we have achieved relative to that, and what we were going to launch that Thursday. Thursday is our launch day. Then we really understand where we were going. And from there, the next step was we then communicated to our broader team. “Okay, here’s what we’re launching on our website this week. Here’s the latest product or update. Here’s how we’re going to execute against this with the customers.” And they were the steps that we took. And from that point forward we just repeat, we call it rinse, wash, and repeat, go through it again, set our next goal, set our next timeline, and then work through it that way.

OWEN: So what specific systems you have in the business that basically now enables it to grow without you?

DEBORAH: Our real system is that our technology enables us to, for example when someone places an order, it goes automatically into our system, and then that order is held in our system until the documents are procured. The documents are then sent to the State, and then we get the documents back and they’re automatically forwarded to the customer. So that means that I do not need to be worrying about whether my employees are responding to the customers or if they’re preparing the documents in time. All of it is automated, we’re able to see a dashboard that says where the documents are in that stage of the process. And then we’re able to respond to our customers. In addition, my employees are tasked to stay on top of those goals and so we always know where they are. I don’t need to be here to make sure that their documents are getting done, that our customers are happy, and that our employees are doing their jobs.

OWEN: One of the things that my listeners always like to have me ask each guest. Imagine your business like a conveyor belt. On one point is someone who is probably interested in what you’re doing, and in the other end is customer is happy, he’s raving that you guys have delivered. Using that analogy, behind the scenes, what happens behind the scenes in detail, to allow that to happen?

DEBORAH: Sure. In terms of the customer process, they place the order on the website or they call our sales people and place an order. Behind the scenes we see the order come in, and we better able to evaluate what the needs are, that particular order. We talk to the customer to confirm their expectations. We say, “If you’re fine with California, it will take you 60 days to have your incorporation completed.” But if you’re filling in Colorado it can be as quick as 24 hours. So we set the right expectations and that often requires a phone call or an email to our customers. The next phase is we prepare the documents and that part is automated. It gets sent to the State, the State takes, like government, however long they take to get the documents back. And then once the documents are back we then let the clients know, “Look, your corporation has been formed, or your LLC has been filed, and here’s the paperwork.” They generally then take that to the bank and they open a new bank account, and there begins their business.

OWEN: Okay. So is that like an in-house tool that you guys are using to manage the entire workflow?

DEBORAH: Yes.

OWEN: What are you using?

DEBORAH: It’s a proprietary database that we developed and goes back to what I was talking about earlier in our conversation where it was that “Aha moment” where we realize that our process is very unique and requires a detailed analysis of how we’re going to solve for our customers. And so the corporation of that database, it carries us through this process I described of the conveyor belt of what a customer would see if they were inside the business. That is what we developed on our systematized process, and that’s what enabled our employees to plug-in where necessary to have human interaction but to enable to document process flow to go on in the background. So that I know as the leader that it’s going whether or not my employees are plugging in and I can feel confident to know that the process is being completed in a timely manner.

OWEN: So, I’m assuming that this whole custom solution that you have was not built when you came in and bought the company, right? Or was it already there?

DEBORAH: There were certain points where things were automated, but there were a lot of points where it wasn’t throughout the entire process. So for example, we would know that a customer placed an order. I guess that’s obvious. But we wouldn’t necessarily know timing on when he confirms the order, when we completed the documents being prepared, when we sent them to State, so that we had a big picture of the entire line. And now, where we’ve got an even better in systematizing is that every year these customers who place orders need to renew their filings at the State. And we notify them their filings review, it’s a great sales opportunity for us to up sell them and say, “Would you like us to do this annual filing for you?” And since our system is so automated we know when the filings are due, we can notify the clients that they’re due. And then we can of course collect payment, prepare the annual documents, and send them off to the State as part of that process.

OWEN: So I’m curious, did you come into the company with a technical programming background? I’m trying to figure out how, if you didn’t have the technical background how were you able to now come in and work with programmers to make sure that they build a custom solutions for it. Because the listener who listen to this might be in that same situation and thinking of having a custom solution that basically maps out the workflow behind their business. So, how did you do that coming in?

DEBORAH: I guess the answer is no, I did not have a technical background. Having a legal background definitely helps because then you go laws and their requirements. But having a great partner on my technology team who understood the business and knew our goals. So we worked together to develop the systems. And then of course having the team on the floor who communicate with the customers. So when we were developing the systems we involve the team on the floor who talk to the customers. So we can integrate customer pain points. And then we have the technical laws that have the requirement. And then you have, of course, the development in the systems of the programmers, but also, even the graphic designers to make our site look in a way that our customers understand. And then to get the data into our back end database so that we have everything we need to process the orders.

OWEN: You know as with all software– the listener might not know this, but you think of the software you love to use today, they didn’t start out the way they are now. They probably started with a minimum viable version of it. And I’m trying to figure out when you came in what were the core aspects that you guys started with? Because the person might been in a situation where they want to figure out how to build their own custom solution to literally map out the entire workflow. But we want to give them the critical points to focus on, based on your own experience.

DEBORAH: Absolutely. The critical points for the database of the customers basically know who places orders and what their order was. That was how we got the customer in the door, and that was the key critical point. Then, knowing that the documents went out the door, to the customer at the end of the process. But all of the intermediary points where the document, with the workflow process, where the documents were at any given point in time, how long they had been at the State. And then we add on the annual notifications was an additional piece. So you’re 100% right. We started with bare bones, database, and are the documents outside the door or are they in our business. And then we just keep adding on pieces as we realize our pain points for our sales team, pain points for our customer service team, pain points for our customers. And then we get pain points for the document processing team, the people that produce the documents. We didn’t always had a system that the data flowed automatically to the corporate documents. But now it automatically flows in and the paper work is produced. And those are the areas that we really continue to optimize and learn more about what our customers need. For example, we just recently added to our workflow, we [Unintelligible 00:18:18] to for customers to save documents in our Cloud service to store their documents. And this is a perfect example so that we did not have originally but added it on because it was pain point our customers have. When they got to the bank or they had investors, they didn’t have their corporate paperwork, they couldn’t find it. And if we had to go back to the State and ask them, “Can you send us a new copy?” that will take months. But if we house it or if the customers are able upload their minutes, or bylaws, operating agreement, annual documentation, their stock certificates. If they can keep all that on our server, then, A, it’s an opportunity for us to continue to engage with the customers, and B, it’s also an opportunity for us to offer an additional service that we knew was a pain point.

OWEN: What I got from that regarding the actual workflow was that you guys figured out what were the core parts of the workflow regarding you guys getting from a customer, or someone who’s just coming in, signing up, and getting them to being able to get the documents filed. You guys figured the core parts of it. And then over time, as you guys hit each snag or each issue that maybe the employees were experiencing. You figured out, “Okay, how do I add into the system so that the system’s responsible for making sure that this gets done next time?”

DEBORAH: Absolutely, that’s exactly how we did it. And I think what makes our business viable is that we don’t now just sit back and think we’re done. Every day we think about, “Okay, what’s our next thing we can add on to solve for our customers, to make life easier for our employees, to identify new opportunity areas to grow revenue?” So all of these, and sometimes one add-on solves for all of those things. But sometimes as you know we have to prioritize that this is the project that we do first, and then once we completed that we move on to the next project. So our developers, many or most of whom work right here in our office help us identify which of the projects that can be done quickly, cleanly, and launched. And which are enormous products that may solve a lot of problems but may take a lot longer to exit here.

OWEN: So, what challenges do you initially experience as you try to create this custom solution for your business, and how do you solve them?

DEBORAH: Well, development projects take a long time. And not being a developer, you asked do I have a technical background, I’m not. There was a gap of communication between me, the lawyer, the business owner who wants things done, and the development team who is working. And things take a long time. We want things done right, you don’t want to do them 10 times, you don’t want them wrong or launch them with errors, you don’t want to lose data. So that was the biggest problem is us figuring out how do we move forward in a systematic way, make progress, but not take forever to get things launched. And so it was all about iterating, identifying core areas where we could improve, adding that on to our platform, and then moving to the next step.

OWEN: You also mentioned during the pre-interview that one of other issues was the employees coming from a background where, maybe they were micromanaged and they didn’t have [Unintelligible 00:21:35]. Getting into this whole different ideology and different way of doing things was a little bit challenging. Explain that, how so? Can you hear me?

DEBORAH: Yeah, I can hear you now.

OWEN: Yes. I’ll repeat the question. I think during the pre-interview you mentioned that some of the employees they came from a background where there was a lot of micromanaging and they didn’t have this whole thing where you were empowering them. And that really was a whole mindset issue that they had to deal with. And so, coming to this new environment that was an issue.

DEBORAH: Yes.

OWEN: Explain that in more detail? So, talk about how you solved that problem?

DEBORAH: Sure. I think as with anything, when people have been in their work environment, we were formerly owned by an owner who then sold the business to Intuit, and from Intuit, I bought the business out 5 years later. And so, there was a lot of different, kind of, for lack of a better term, baggage. I’m micromanaging bots, who then moved on to Intuit, where it was a large corporate organization, and then to trying to take the business out to a situation that was happy, healthy, progressive, moving in the right direction where people thought that they couldn’t make a difference in the business, and they felt empowered to run their own day-to-day. And I think that has been a huge transition, from me realizing that this was an issue, that people didn’t feel empowered, to then taking action to let them make mistakes and realizing mistakes happen, and honesty is the most important thing. And let’s get beyond it, and let’s try to keep progressing. And now I feel like because people are empowered, even if something goes wrong, we’re willing to take more chances and learn, and improve our business, than if people felt too scared or too nervous to present their ideas or opportunities. And I feel like that communication has really helped our business.

OWEN: I’ve heard actually that sometimes when a company buys out another company, one of the biggest struggles they deal with is how you manage the culture and the way they’ve been used to doing things. And I’m trying to figure out how did you break down the whole cycle of the baggage that came with the old company?

DEBORAH: Sure. Really, it took baby steps.

OWEN: How so?

DEBORAH: A lot of it was for me realizing that it was a problem to begin with, because I just thought, “Here we go, we’re off on our own, everything’s fine.” And it took me to realize, “Wow, there’s some employees here who are better in the corporate world and are not better in an entrepreneurial environment.” And so, communicating with those people, “Is this right for you?” Maybe being in an organization like Intuit, which was a large corporate organization is a better fit for certain employees. So identifying those employees where a small entrepreneurial environment was just not a fit. And that was a big opportunity for me to identify those people. Also I think, not always, but sometimes the corporate environment breeds sort of this contentment, like come in and just sort of do your job and go home. But an entrepreneur environment is really about commitment and working toward an end game, a bigger good. And so convincing team, we’re not just here to put in 8 hours. We’re actually here to do a great job, to improve our business. And if everyone feels committed to our growth, because they’re owners of their own destiny. And communicating that over and over has been a hallmark of our business, realizing that we’re not corporate, we’re not just showing up and scanning our tag, and walking in the door, and sitting down for 8 hours. Unless we’re making a difference this isn’t the right place. And so for me it was identifying those opportunities in employees and identifying those employees that could escalate in this environment of entrepreneurism. And then identifying those that could not and be open about it, is this right for you or is it not? Either you step up or you make a determination that this isn’t the right place.

OWEN: And so, we understand that based on what you’ve been saying so far that you created like a custom workflow solution. But during the pre-interview I was asking, how does your employees know exactly what they need to do. And you mention that you have like a process manual that follow the flow of the business. Can you talk about that?

DEBORAH: Sure. So when our technology was developed and as we continue to develop, we continue to input the process– interject into the process flow adjustments that are made. But we have one manual, so if a new employee were to come in, they wouldn’t, but they could literally read page by page to identify what comes next, what happens at the next stage, and go all the way through the process flow. But what we have is a process where there’s different stages of the flow and a employee takes ownership of a particular stage. So we have stage A through E, and when you’re a new employee you will relearn your stage. And sometimes the employees want to shift, they want to move to a different role or a different stage, but for the most part, if someone sit as a sales person at stage A, and they are great at that then usually they stay in that role. And that’s how you systematize and then able to bring on new employees, and have them integrate into the business.

OWEN: You also mentioned that as a result of what you have now, you’re always working on updating kind of like the manual, the procedures that you have in place. How do you guys do that? I’m just curious.

DEBORAH: Sure. When you have new systems developed we then kind of added to the physical, manual, or electronic, it’s on our HML system. And we clarify, “Okay, this part has just been adjusted, and this is the inserted, and here’s there–” For example, with our sales team I mentioned that we added our document storage. And so, that impacts a number of different levels of our business. At the technology level, it impacts the maintenance of our developers to maintain the system, to make sure we have enough server room, storage room for all the documents. At the sales level it’s important for the sales team to understand this product, be able to sell it, be able to explain it to customers. At the customer service level, it’s important for them to tell customers, “This is how you use the product. And this is how you can upload documents or download documents. And so, one product had multiple different touch points but there are overall service manual, so that we would have to make adjustments to all areas of the business when we add a product or service.

OWEN: And so how do you now track and verify the results that your employees deliver?

DEBORAH: So we really are specific. Number 1 is ROI, we focus on return of investment. How much are we spending, what are we getting out. Then of course at a very macro level we focus on profitability. What’s our top line number, what’s our profitability, and how are we going to improve that over time. It’s kind of funny because when we came from the business at Intuit, profitability was never an issue. It was, “How much can we grow our top line?” But under me it’s not viable. I’m not going to spend 20 million to make 10 million. I want to spend 5 million and make 7. And next year spend 5 and a half to make 8. And really look at how we’re growing that and improving. So I think that engaging our profitability has been important. We also of course assess renewal rates. How many customers that we get in the door come back next year to renew. And then of course conversion, someone who comes to our site and looks at our site, how many of those people actually place an order with us, and how many do we get to completion. Our best static, the best number for us is the number that says, “The customer that comes in gets to completion 100% of the time.” And then we know where our opportunity areas are, converting more customers, renewing more customers, and improving profitability.

OWEN: Also, during the pre-interview you mentioned the different departments you have. They also have their own specific ways in which you track them. One of which was the sales team, the processing team, as well as the tech team. And you also mentioned the finance team. So all these 4 different teams that you have, let’s talk about specifics as to having the results being tracked on each of these teams.

DEBORAH: You bet. So for our sales team we really track them in terms of their sales numbers. We look at, on a given day, on a given week, on a given month, we track them both individually, and as a team. And so we set goals for the beginning of the month, and then we work toward incentives throughout the month. So that’s purely numbers, how is sales going, how are we converting our customers. On the finance team for example, we track it by how much cost savings are we identify, what’s our profitability looking like, how on top of our revenue numbers are we? From the tech standpoint, we’re looking at, where do our goals that we’re looking at for the month and how are we tracking against releases on a weekly basis, and then on a monthly basis. And then with the tech team we look a little bit longer term because we know projects aren’t always tomorrow. Sometimes that take 2 months, or 3 months, as you know.

OWEN: Yeah.

DEBORAH: So, you track daily, you track weekly, but really you’re looking more monthly and even bi-annually. And then the final one I mentioned, or you mentioned was the–

OWEN: The processing team, yeah.

DEBORAH: And when you track that by how many documents are coming in the door on day 1, whatever day the order’s placed, if it’s a Tuesday for example. And how many documents could get out of the door on Wednesday, and when we get those documents back from the State. How fast is our turnaround time to process documents and get them delivered to the customer.

OWEN: Wow. And so since now your business literally runs without you for the most part, what would you say has been the longest time you’ve been away from the business?

DEBORAH: Honestly, I love it so much I don’t go away as much as I could, because I probably could be gone. They would laugh at me at say, “You can just go.” But I really enjoy being there. And so, I go away for a few weeks at least every winter, and a few weeks in the summer, and travel with my family. But I really enjoy being here. The best thing I think about systematizing and automating the business gives me the flexibility, for example, to go see my sons speak at an event. Or go see them play soccer if it’s the midday or the midweek when I have to leave early. It means that I don’t have to be here from 6 am to 8 pm every single day like when I was practicing law. I have that flexibility, and I can be here because I love it, but not because I have to be.

OWEN: Yeah, and so, with all these free time, what areas of the business you find are you focused most of your time on and why?

DEBORAH: Sure. I love to focus kind of the marketing, PR, business development, getting out and talking about our business. I’m passionate about it. When I’m sharing with customers what we do and how we do it, it comes across. And so people enjoy working with our company for that reason. And so I think that is my favorite part, is talking about our business, doing marketing, doing PR, and even the social media aspects to me are a lot of fun.

OWEN: And so, what will you say is the very next step that someone who’s listening to this obviously, is probably thinking of creating systems for their business, just like you have in your business. What will you say is the very next step that the person listening should take in order to have their business [Unintelligible 00:33:29] and grow without them?

DEBORAH: Sure. I think the next step is really focusing on pain points for customers and pain points for employees. Determining where those align, and then trying one by one. I really don’t believe them who’ll say, “Shouldn’t bite off more than you can chew.” Take little steps, I believe in little steps. Whether it’s with partners, employees, customers, technology, whatever it is. If you’re taking steps and you’re making progress, that to me is significant. If you’re thinking of huge leaps, or enormous steps, that is something that’ll take forever. But if you take the little steps, nip away at each little thing, then gradually go and improving your business.

OWEN: And so, I’m curious, you were once an attorney. But I’m wondering, is this whole mindset of where you now been able to systematize your business, was it influenced by any books or tools? And if so, can you recommend those books?

DEBORAH: Sure. I think honestly it was influenced a lot by colleagues, and people who are in similar situations who own or run businesses, who had been there and looked at the big picture before. But as you know, a lot of business decisions are based on trial and error. Being in the business, learning, talking to other business owners, whether it’s about your employees, about your technology. Sometimes on the soccer field I’ll talk with other parents who owned businesses and I say, “How do you deal with weird developers, or how do you deal with problem employees?” I’m also a member of a number of professional groups, and those groups are perfect opportunities to discuss with other business owners how they do what they do, and how they improve upon it.

OWEN: Can you name some of those groups because maybe the listener might be thinking of joining them, I’m just curious.

DEBORAH: Absolutely. I remember an organization called WPA which is Women’s Presence Organization. And there’s also another incredible organization called Entrepreneur’s Organization or EO, that’s an incredible opportunity. And then I’m also on a couple of different university boards, the Pepperdine University and Cal Lutheran University. And those who’d given me opportunities to kind of take a look at management of businesses both at a university level but also as a small business level, and try to evaluate. It also doesn’t hurt, my husband is an entrepreneur so between the two of us, we’re able to bounce ideas off of each other and be strategic. And I think the other thing, it’s not breathing yourself that, you learn a lot of things whether it’s from reading books. I love the book Onward.

OWEN: Onward by who?

DEBORAH: Onward, a book about Starbucks.

OWEN: Oh, okay.

DEBORAH: And it’s an incredible book because it talks about how you make a lot of decisions that lead to the success of your business, but you also make a lot of decisions that are not good for your business. And it sounds cliché, but a lot of times you learn more from those things that aren’t good than you do from those things that are. And I think that it’s really about not being afraid to try things, but being aware of ramifications and making calculated decisions.

OWEN: Yeah. So what’s the best way for the listener to connect with you and thank you for doing the interview?

DEBORAH: Sure. Email is really good all the time. My email is dsweeney@mycorporation.com. I’m also on Skype, at mycorp.sweeney, and at @deborahsweeney on Twitter.

OWEN: Awesome. And so, one of the things that we’re trying to do is continue this conversation even after listeners listen to the interview. Will you be willing to come back and if they have a question, and answer their question by the comment? I might not have asked you the questions they want me to ask you during the interview, so he has the opportunity to post a question, we just want to get you to come back.

DEBORAH: I’d be thrilled to, absolutely.

OWEN: Yeah. And one thing too is I’m wondering, is there a question that you wish I’d asked you during the interview that for some reason I didn’t ask you? And if so, I want you to post a question and let’s talk about it.

DEBORAH: I think maybe a good question would have been, what makes an entrepreneur an entrepreneur. And I think that, I kind of mentioned it at the end, what about the systems that we put in place, what about the process had made a difference in my life. And yes, that’s freedom and time to kind of do my own thing. But I think it’s also about that satisfaction of always looking for the next thing, looking for the next system, the next opportunity, how can we improve. And I think  that entrepreneurial mindset that keeps someone always looking for the next best system, the next best process to improve their own business, and to solve with our customers. So that’s what makes me excited and makes me happy.

OWEN: Yeah, and so now I’m talking to you, the listener. If you have enjoyed this interview and you want to leave a positive review, you can do that. Leave a positive review on iTunes by going to sweetprocess.com/iTunes. The reason is, is the more reviews we have on there the more it get exposed to all the entrepreneurs, and they can come on here and learn as well as you have. Also, if you find this interview useful I want you to share it with any of your entrepreneur colleagues, let them get to enjoy this interview as well as you have. Finally, if you had a point in your business where you can no longer be the bottleneck and you want to literally get everything out of your head, and document procedures so that your employees know exactly what to do, sign-up for our free 14-day trial of Sweet Process. Deborah, thanks for doing the interview.

DEBORAH: Thanks, my pleasure, nice talking with you.

OWEN: And we’re done.